The Ease of Hustle Podcast

20. Breaking Up with The Mind with Breakup Coach Dorothy

You've been using your mind to make all the decisions in your business, and you are starting to feel fatigued. There's got to be another way, right?

Have you ever thought about using your inner knowing, your intuition? You can drop into your inner knowing, your intuition, and quiet your mind for just a moment to gain clarity to help you guide your decision-making and more.

Join Breakup Coach Dorothy and me as we dive into breaking up with the mind. You have your mind, and then you have your intuition (or your inner knowing). There is a difference between the two, and we distill each down for you. You can use both to help you move your business and life forward.

What You'll Learn From This Episode:

  • What the inner voice is
  • The difference between the mind and the inner voice
  • When to use the inner voice verse the mind
  • Examples of using the inner voice and the mind together
  • Ways you can start tapping into your inner voice
  • How you can use your inner voice to make big decisions

Listen to the Full Episode:

20. Breaking Up with The Mind with Breakup Coach Dorothy

The Ease of Hustle with Lauren Cash

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Full Episode Transcript:

You are listening to The Effective Entrepreneur Podcast with Lauren Cash, Episode 20: Breaking Up with The Mind with Breakup Coach Dorothy.

Hey, I hope you're having an amazing week. This is one of our episodes, every 10 episodes. I have a guest on and chat with them, interview them a little bit and have a conversation about a topic that we have in common so that you can just hear a fun conversation between friends, or between me and my clients, or somebody I know, every 10 episodes. So today we have Dorothy on the podcast and you'll hear how we know each other and our conversation about incorporating inner voice facilitation into our mindset coaching. So I'm super excited for you to hear it, and meet Dorothy if you've never met her before, and enjoy this conversation.

Lauren: Hey, Dorothy. Thanks so much for coming on the podcast.

Dorothy: Thanks for having me, Lauren. I love it. So excited.

Lauren: Will you tell the lovely listeners how we know each other?

Dorothy: Yes, I would love to. I feel like our friendship story is the best. So actually it's funny because I kind of knew you before you knew me.

Lauren: How is that possible?

Dorothy: Right? Because I was thinking about that the other day and you had emailed me on, I had signed up for Self Coaching Scholars and you had emailed me a response of a question or something. And so then when I actually physically met you at my life coach certification, so you had already been certified, you were working that certification program. And so I met you there and was so excited and we chit-chatted, and we talked about Instagram, and we talked about goals for the year. It was so fun. Loved it. And then after that, we just continued to be really good friends. And then we went to Philadelphia or Pittsburgh, I never can remember which one.

Lauren: One of the ones, that starts with a P over there.

Dorothy: Over on the East Coast. Yeah. We went there together to watch the recording of Jess Lively's YouTube Inner Voice Facilitator thing that she was doing. And so that was super fun. And we got to be in those recordings.

Lauren: Yeah. And people are always, not always, really, anymore, but every once in a while now, if anyone trips across those TV show recording on YouTube, I'll get a Slack or a text saying, “Wait, were you there at the recording? And who, is that Dorothy, The Breakup Coach? So that's super fun. Our celebrity fame.

Dorothy: Yes, I love it. We made it back. That was us making it.

Lauren: In the background of some obscure TV show filming for YouTube. Yes.

Dorothy: So fun. I loved it.

Lauren: Oh, that was also the first event that I went to in public outside of The Life Coach School, where I got recognized as like, “Are you the Lauren Cash?” That was my first time, and it was Caitlin Faas actually who recognized me, and she was doing coach training at the time and knew me because I was the director then. And she's actually my intern right now in the coach certification program. So it's like come full circle.

Dorothy: That's so cool. That's amazing. I love that. And that was the weekend too, where it was so fun because it was like kind of my first experience of, “Oh my gosh, I can have friends who love doing all the things that I do on my own, but I can do that with another friend.” It was so fun. We would be in like the Airbnb and we'd be watching, listening to our favorite podcasts and we'd be watching coaching by Brooke.

Lauren: Yeah, we were tuning in to all the same things. Instead of Netflix, we were watching coaching, which is basically my life in a nutshell.

Dorothy: It was so good. I loved that. That was super fun. And then, yeah, so we did that. And then I feel like we've been doing all the woo-woo things together lately.

Lauren: Yeah, we have, especially through Jess Lively, as she's continued to evolve and have new offers. You and I felt like we were meant to do the second round or the first official round of Inner Voice Facilitator training this year. And we went through that at the same time. We weren't in the same group, but we did it at the same time and got certified at the same time. And then Jess right now is running like a four-month type program situation called Cocoon. And you and I both, it's funny, we both had this like program constraint drama around joining it or not joining it. And talking to you, asking you what your inner voice was saying about which programs to join, and asking my own inner voice about that ended up helping me see that we could really use program constraint against ourselves. And so I ended up re-teaching that in a whole new way before this podcast will come out.

Dorothy: Yes.

Lauren: So for those of you wondering where that realization came from, it was from just a conversation with Dorothy. So thank you for that.

Dorothy: I love that. That's so great. Absolutely, because it was so wild that I was like, my brain was so wrapped up on like, “I can't do all these programs at once.” And that was just clearly not true. And then when I asked my inner voice what to do, she was like, “Oh my goodness, you should do this program and this program and this program.” And then even like a week later it was like, “Yeah, we're going to do this one too.”

Lauren: And I had the same thing happened. I was wanting to get into a mastermind, and I didn't know what mastermind. I just kept hearing no for all the common ones that I've been hearing people are in, and all the ones my mind thinks that I should be in. And then eventually I found one just pretty randomly and joined it the same day.

Dorothy: Yes.

Lauren: It was so fun. Okay, so we've started talking about the inner voice and our minds, stuff like that. And I do have one podcast episode early on called The Mind and The Intuition. So I started talking about how we are starting to conceptualize the mind being separate from this other voice, the inner being’s voice that we also call intuition interchangeably. But I'm curious how you describe sort of this inner voice, what it is for those listening.

Dorothy: Yeah, so the way that I describe inner voices and like you said, I use intuition, inner voice, a gut knowing, I kind of use all of that simultaneously, but the way that I see it as it's like my inner soul. So I read this book called Journey of Souls that really kind of transformed my life. And I very much subscribe to the idea of it and just go with it. And it's this idea that our soul has had multiple life iterations and lives in multiple dimensions, and it makes this human iteration or this character of Dorothy less serious. And I'm like, “Oh, this is probably, X number of times that I've been here on earth as a human form. And there's this reason that my soul is inside the body.”

And so I guess I kind of also think of intuition, inner voices, that inner soul, the soul that knows like all the lives and all of the things. And then it also, I mean, we could even go as deep as saying it's a part of the universe and then they're all a part of the universe and all of that stuff.

Lauren: Yeah, what would you say, is it connected or is it source? God? What would you say for that?

Dorothy: Yeah, I would say it's all connected. So when I think of a soul, and like the soul is a part, it's almost like if you could think of the universe being this big bubble if we had to conceptualize it and put it into a container. It's like, I think of it as the universe is a big bubble and then the souls are pulled off portions of the bubble. So we're all a part of the bubble and we're all connected through that. And then each soul has its own journey. And it's really funny in that book of Journey of Soul.

Lauren: I still haven't read it. I can't believe I haven't read it. I definitely feel like I'm going to read it soon because Jess always was talking about it and now I hear you talking about it. So I'm excited.

Dorothy: Yeah, and in Journey of Souls too, it gets really specific about there's different soul levels and different soul colors. And you have a soul pod and multiple different soulmates and it's just really fun and really fascinating to think about. And it helps me also just, I talk to my clients a lot about trust, and it really helps me with just trusting in the universe and in the different things. And I always talk about there are three different layers of trust. It's like a trust in a higher power of sorts, and that doesn't have to be religion. It can be the universe, whatever that might be for you. And then when you have that trust in a higher power, it's easier to trust yourself, knowing that you're always going to have your own back. And then when you have that trust in the higher power and yourself, it's much easier just to trust others, because all you have to do is trust them to be human. So yeah, I don't know.

Lauren: I like that, that's beautiful. So for those who are more, maybe I think a lot of my listeners probably are in The Life Coach School world of things and mindset coaching is something you and I are also certified in from The Life Coach School. What would you say about when do you use mindset coaching? What is this inner voice? How do we know the difference between the two? How do those folks make sense of this?

Dorothy: Yeah, there's so many things that popped up in my brain, as you were saying that. The first thing is your inner voice is always calm, always certain, always together. She's not freaking out. She's not upset. She's there for it all. And she doesn't normally have, she's not attached to anything. She's not attached to the outcomes that the mind normally is attached to. And I feel like the inner voice is also never going to be like all yes or all no. It's not black or white, there's a lot of gray, and throughout the gray, she's very calm and collected and it's okay and she loves you and you're safe and all of the things. Whereas the mind can be kind of like a fast squirrel, like eek, just all kinds of upsetness and very black and white and needs to go, go, go, go.

And I feel like that's the main difference. When it comes to when to use what there is a lot of answers that I have to that. And the best way that I think that I can describe this is with my clients who are going through breakups, I use the inner voice when we're feeling feelings. And even mindset work we have to feel our feelings and get used to living in the 50% negative, 50% positive. But with inner voice work when you're feeling emotions, it's much more about embodiment versus the mind is almost like feelings analysis. We look at it as an analysis of what thoughts are creating feelings versus inner voice is so great because you release the emotion out of your body, which is so important because the feeling is a sensation in your body.

So I love to use inner voice work when we're feeling feelings, releasing what Jess Lively calls as beanbags, Eckhart Tolle calls them the pain body. I call them grief bubbles. So when we're releasing emotion, I like to use inner voice in that kind of scenario. And then also I love using inner voice when it comes to coming back to trusting in everything that's happening and how it's happening for you, not to you. And then also decision-making. I think the inner voice is so much more fun to make decisions with than the mind. And so I've just gotten to this place where I fully trust my inner voice more than I trust my mind. So I'll have the inner voice make the decision. And then we do the mindset work around that decision.

So kind of what Lauren was talking about earlier, we made the decision around the programs with our inner voice, and then we did mindset work around those decisions because our mind was like, “There's no way we can do all those programs at once.” Does that make sense?

Lauren: Yeah, I love that so much. And I've been thinking through different ways to teach decision-making for entrepreneurs in my new program coming out this year. And I feel like there are different phases of the decision, the pre-decision, the decision is made, and then the post-decision. I kind of am thinking it's a three-phase thing. And I feel it's really the post-decision that we mostly will use the mind to execute what the inner voice has told us. But then the inner voice is telling us the calm, still, you're doing it, “right,” or you're fine how it's going, because to the inner voice, there's no right or wrong or anything like that, but it can help calm the mind down.

And the belief work then, I think, and the mindset work is to get on board with what the inner voice has already told us. So catching the mind up to what we're creating with what the inner knowing has told us. Do you have any other examples of ways that you've trusted your inner knowing for some decisions and how that went with your mind and then how it actually ended up turning out?

Dorothy: Yes, so for my life personally, I've done so much of this work. I mean, ever since we got into IVFT, right? So we're in Inner Voice Facilitator Training and I made some really big decisions in my life around the inner voice. And the two that are coming to mind are I moved from Boston to Florida, which logically in the mind doesn't make a lot of sense. The only pro to that was the fact that there's no state income tax. And so my mind was like, “Oh, we can get on board with that, easy.” But then with the COVID cases here and moving to, I don't know, it felt like the mind was having a hissy fit over the entire thing.

And then also leaving my most recent relationship. Logically we had a great life. There was nothing wrong with our relationship. We were amazing together. But it was almost like I was trying, like my mind couldn't comprehend leaving something that was good and there were no problems, to something that was epic and amazing and something that aligned even more. But my inner voice the entire time was calm throughout the entire situation. It wasn't a decision that I made quickly. It's a decision that I spent a lot of time asking the inner voice and she would be like, “Yeah, it's not it. This isn't the relationship for you.” But then I wanted to say, “When do I need to leave?” And it's like, “When you feel comfortable leaving. You don't have to leave right now. You don't need to leave today.”

And ultimately it just got to the point where I was like, “Oh my gosh. I do want to leave. I do want to listen to the inner voice. And I do want to leave the relationship and I want to pick up and move to this new location.” And my mind, of course, didn't get on board right away. I had to do the, and especially throughout the execution like you were saying, where I'm literally packing the boxes in my apartment that I loved and was obsessed with to go live in Florida in a way that was very unknown to me, of like where I was going to live and what kind of environment and all of that. When I was executing those things, my mind was like, “This is dumb. What are you doing? You're messing this all up. You're sabotaging yourself.”

And then I was also making some really big business decisions and changing the way that I ran my business too. So all of that stuff also popped up. But I ultimately would come back to the inner voice very frequently. And I mean, this is also why I love Lauren's and in my friendship is I can text you and be like, “Hey, this is what's coming up,” and literally your response will be like, “What does your inner voice say?”

Lauren: That's all you get from me these days. What does your inner voice say?

Dorothy: And it's so helpful.

Lauren: And then you're like, “Oh. I know now.”

Dorothy: Yes, right? And it feels so good to listen to your inner voice.

Lauren: Yeah. I've noticed, so I used to ask, and I still do it because it's sort of a habit, “Well, what do you think?” to my clients a lot? And I can't wait to stop asking, “What do you think?” Because that's mental mind. And they're like, “I don't know. I don't know what to think.” And then they're all confused or overwhelmed or in their self-doubt or all of these indulgent emotions that they're having a hard time with. And really just asking, “Well, what is your inner voice saying? What is your intuition saying?” And it was funny. One of my clients that ended with me a couple of weeks ago, she had sent me one last message, on her off-boarding day, asking me something about her business and what she should do. And I asked her the same question and I was like, “Well, you expect this from me now, don't you?” And she was like rolling her eyes.

But it's so true. And that's what I'm so excited to help all the entrepreneurs who are going to be working with me this year and in my new group program, really using the inner knowing for running their businesses, because as you know, in business there are so many decisions to be made, especially as the CEO founder, all day long. And one of the things I was realizing recently is the whole concept around decision fatigue and the mind and willpower, that we deplete willpower after a certain number of decisions in a day. And I'm wondering now if we're using the mind to make decisions rather than using our inner knowing to make decisions if we wouldn't actually get tired of decisions. What do you think?

Dorothy: Oh my gosh, Lauren. So as you're saying this, it brings me back to one of the Co-Co Collective calls that we were on. So that's like a whole other program thing that we're in with, by the way. And it's this woman who like channels a different entity and that entity talks through this woman. Anyhow, someone had asked a question about something with the mind. And one of the things that the Co-Co said that really hit home with me, kind of to what you're talking about, is the mind was never supposed to be used as much as it's being used. It's an over-utilized tool and the mind wants to not work as hard. The mind doesn't want to be doing and making all these decisions. The mind doesn't want to be doing this. It's supposed to be the inner voice. It's supposed to be the soul that's making those decisions and doing all of those things.

And we've been so over-consumed and so infiltrated with how the mind needs to be doing these things, because I also think there's, again, just like with thought work, learning to be aware of your thinking. We just aren't aware that there is an inner knowing, and it's separate from the mind.

Lauren: Yeah, that's so good. And I'm so excited for that and really starting to fully embody my inner being and Jess on our last call in Cocoon was even talking about not even talking about our inner being or inner voices decisions as a thing outside of us because it is us. So talking about not my inner voice said, just having that be what you're saying exactly. Which is interesting, because I've been separating it out to learn it, but now to start to instead differentiate, “Well, my mind is saying this, but I'm saying whatever you're hearing.”

Dorothy: Yes, and I love that you said that because it's made me really realize I've bucketed it into like three pieces, but there's really not three, there's one. And then we have the tool of the mind.

Lauren: Yeah, and so in my mastermind, there's a support coach in there that does a lot of like embodiment type work. And she was talking about how even our bodies are not separate from our beings. It's part of our soul, the body part that's created from the consciousness. I don't know if anyone's tracking now, we've gotten so far off the deep end, but I think it's really fascinating because then you're not thinking about your body as being the separate cut off thing from you. It's a part of the whole part of you that has things to tell you and help you sense what's going on for you too.

Dorothy: Yeah, that makes total sense. Absolutely.

Lauren: Yeah, so tell us more about what kind of work you do with your clients and how both these things are coming into play. I know you told us about grief bubbles, but if there's anything else.

Dorothy: Yeah, no, so I help individuals get over their ex in three months or less, and really kind of my mission in life, in this life iteration that I have, is to help people heal their hearts so that they can go on and help heal the world in their own unique ways. And so my biggest thing is it's not just about getting over your ex and healing your heart and moving on. It's much more about building a life that was better than the life that you had with your ex so that you get to this point where you've built this sundae, your life is this beautiful, amazing sundae, and a partner who comes and joins you is just the cherry on top. And if that cherry rolls off the sundae, no big deal, your life is already epic and amazing as it is.

And I love that because I just feel it plays to the model perfectly, where it's just like, “Oh, it's not our circumstances, our acts, or what they did or didn't do that control the result that I have for my life. It's always going to be my thoughts and all of that.”

Now what was so profound when I found thought work, was going through my breakup, my epic, rock bottom, breakup situation was that I, for so long thought that he created all of the anger and resentment I had, because of the way he broke up with me, and the fact that he started dating someone so soon after the end of our seven-year relationship. And I thought that was all happening because of him. And so when I learned that thoughts created feelings, my mind exploded because I was all in on figuring out how to get over my ex. I Googled it, how to get over your ex a million times. And I did all the things it listed. I got in the best shape of my life. I distracted myself. I kept busy. I took it day by day. I waited for time to heal my heart. I traveled. All of the stuff. And none of that worked. A year later, I was still so angry and resentful.

So when I heard from Brooke that your thoughts create your feelings, just the same mind exploding thing that happens probably to all of your listeners, happened and it happened in the realm of heartbreak. And I was like, “This needs to be taught to everyone, just like everyone else in all of their other niches are like, ‘This needs to be taught in this niche.'” And it kind of just catapulted from there.

And then in terms of the inner voice work, that didn't come until later. So I had built my business, the breakup business, and it's all about thought work and changing your story around your breakup, all the stuff that I'm sure your listeners are probably pretty keen to. But then when inner voice work came into my life, there was a layer of the feelings work. And I would get people who were just fresh from the heartbreak. And they're in pure panic mode and anger and resentment and jealousy and all of the really big emotions, the sadness, the loss, the grief that happens. And then I would also get people who were years out of their breakup or their divorce. And it was the really deep-seated anger and resentment and betrayal that would still reside in the body.

And it was like there's got to be another way because we would do the thoughts, which thoughts are creating what feelings, but there had to be another way to really release those emotions from a very physical perspective. And so that's what I loved about the inner voice work is we just really had the ability to go inwards and feel safe enough to trust yourself to feel and release those emotions. And then the inner voice work too also helps, like I said before, with the trusting stuff. A lot of times my clients come from infidelity or something like that where all trust for all of humanity and for themselves, they're questioning themselves, is gone. And so they have to relearn the muscle of trust. And what does trust actually mean? And how can you create that and cultivate that in your life? And it comes from those three different layers that I talked about of trusting in the higher power, trusting in yourself, and then it's so much easier to trust in others.

And then lastly, like I said, with the decision piece, it's like the last four weeks of my program we're uncovering “What do you actually want in life? What does your life look like? If it was going to be better than what you had with your ex, what does that actually look like? Do you want some components from that life or do you not? Do you want it to be completely different?” And a lot of times people have a hard time exploring that because they've just been so used to one thing, they don't even know what's available or out there. And so that's where it's so fun to bring in the inner voice to be like, “What does your inner voice say that you want?” And I think a lot of times people have a hard time just wanting and feeling safe to want what they want.

Lauren: That's so true. And I was talking to a friend about that recently, and we're going to record a whole podcast just on that in a few months.

Dorothy: Good.

Lauren: It's so important. And I also started this practice this weekend of writing down a whole page of things that I want just because I want them and I'm going to do it every day. Dan Sullivan did it for 25 years and I'm going to do that too. I'm super excited.

Dorothy: I love that. That's so good. I love that. I am going to start doing that too. That's fun.

Lauren: I know.

Dorothy: But yeah. And so then we use it in that realm as well in making the decisions around what you actually want and being okay with it and trusting and all of that stuff.

Lauren: That's awesome. So, for anyone listening, if they haven't really been able to tap into their inner knowing or intuition, what would you say they could start doing to listen to that? How could they tap in? Is there a practice? Is there a way that they can listen to that if they're thinking, “I just hear my mind all of the time.”

Dorothy: Yeah, so a couple of things. The first thing that's very simple and you've probably heard before, but I'm going to say it again, is just tapping into a meditation practice. Literally just starting your day with three to five minutes of meditation of just calming the mind, getting practice with just letting the mind sit to the side. The visual that I like to use is my mind sitting in a floaty with a drink on a lazy river, and it's just like going around the lazy river.

Lauren: I love that so much.

Dorothy: Completely outside of my body, and so I do that. And then I also very much like to practice making small decisions with my inner voice. So what nail color to get when I go get my nails done? Or what should I eat for breakfast? Should I have coffee or rasa today? And different small things like that. And it's really fun too because you can listen to the inner voice, hear what the inner voice has to say, and then don't follow what the inner voice has to say, and see what happens. And then also do the vice versa. So then listen, and then do what the inner voice says. And it's with smaller things like that, that's like less impactful to your life. One of my recent examples that I kind of talked to you about before, Lauren, is with my nails.

Lauren: Yes. Which your nails look so pretty today.

Dorothy: I got Christmas theme. So fun. So I went to the nail salon and my inner voice was like, “You should get rainbow nails.” And my mind was like, “We are 30 years old. We are professional. We don't need rainbow nails.” So I got nude, and I was very underwhelmed and kind of like, “Um.” So the next time I went in, I got the rainbow nails. I got all pastel. There were five different colors on all of my nails and it was the most magical and amazing fun thing ever. And everyone loved it. I loved it. It was so cool. And so since then, I have yet to get nails that are all just one color.

Lauren: I am so excited to do the same thing ever since you've told me about that. I've been, oh, and my inner voice told me to start using Pinterest, even though my mind is like, “You are in your '30s, and that's like a basic, you know what thing.” But I've started. And I love using Pinterest now. And I've been finding the coolest nail art on Pinterest. And as soon as I move, I'm going to find a salon or somebody that can come and do my nails because it looks so much fun.

Dorothy: Yes. I love it. So fun. I'm obsessed.

Lauren: Okay, so small decisions, meditation, anything else you want to share?

Dorothy: Let me think about that. Small decisions, meditation. I mean, I really love using my inner voice for really big decisions. It's scary and it can be terrifying, but one of the very first big decisions that I made was I very much wanted to go back to Bali. So I had been to Bali, but it was like a short three-day thing from Malaysia. And I knew that I was going to go back. I just didn't know when or why. And I felt so called to go back there, back in 2019. And I just had such a hang-up on like, “How am I going to run my business while I'm in a completely different time zone?” My business was really still in the infant stages. So I was like, “It's not like realistic or responsible of me and all of the things.”

And so that's when I first got on my first inner voice session with Jess Lively. And so doing an inner voice session with someone who's facilitated in doing that can make a huge difference, because that's when I got on that inner voice session with Jess, and I literally was in the inner voice for two hours. And while I was in that session, my inner voice is like, “We're going to buy the Bali ticket right now.” And so as I'm in this deep meditative state, I'm looking up Bali tickets and we made the decisions based off of numbers, not how much the tickets were. I didn't know what dates to do. And I just picked the dates. It was like January 7th because I like seven and fours and then we’re coming back February 4th and I just bought the ticket there and then, and it was so cool to watch the rest of that experience unfold because as the inner voice made that decision, I then reached out to one of my good friends and her good friend was hosting a retreat there at the very same time. And this retreat kind of changed my journey in terms of health and fitness for all of 2020.

So once I got there, I didn't even know what I was signing up to do. I was like, “Yeah, a retreat in Bali? Sure.” And I had this crazy epic life experience that we did a five day fast where we weren't eating food. It was a five days of just water, which is not something I would actively sign up for on my own.

Lauren: Oh, my word.

Dorothy: And it just changed everything. And I am now off of all medications, I don't have birth control, all of that stuff. And my body feels so good, and it's not like it's the right or wrong way to do it, but it was just an experience that I knew I'm so glad I had.

Lauren: That's so amazing. And yeah, I love all the numbers stuff too. I'm obsessed with alike numbers and price all my things now off of numbers that my inner voice tells me and they're always like super fun numbers, like you were saying, I love fours and sevens too. Alright, so tell the people, if they are going through a breakup and they want your help, where can they find you? Or if they just want to connect with you until that happens in their life, where can they connect with you?

Dorothy: Yes, so I have a podcast called How To Get Over Your Ex which is a super fun podcast. And then I would love for you guys to come hang out on Instagram at Breakup Coach Dorothy.

Lauren: Perfect. And we'll put that all in the show notes for them to be able to find you. So you can go to, for Episode 20. Thanks so much for being with us today, Dorothy. It was so much fun and hopefully, the people don't think we're too crazy, but even if they do, I mean, that's cool too.

Dorothy: I love it. Amazing. Thank you so much, Lauren. I love you and appreciate you times a million.

Lauren: You too. Bye.

Dorothy: Bye.

And there you go. I hope you enjoyed that conversation. If you want to connect with Dorothy or get any of the links we talked about, head to the show notes at, and you'll find everything about Dorothy there and anything else you need.

Hope you have an amazing week. Talk to you next week. Bye.

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