The Ease of Hustle Podcast

10. Procrastinating & Perfectionism With Victoria Albina, NP, MPH

Are you a procrastinator? How about a perfectionist? Or maybe you are thinking that you just aren't getting the results you want in your life or business?

Procrastination is a habit of perfectionism. Many times you want to use procrastination and perfectionistic tendencies to keep you from what you want. Then there's the layer of beating yourself up. But you can drop it all.

Join Victoria Albina, NP, MPH and I today as we talk about procrastination and perfectionism when it comes to planning your schedule and getting things done in your business. We talk about how perfectionist tendencies often get developed at a young age as a protective mechanism. But now, it may not be serving you. Listen in as Victoria gives three ways you can start checking in with yourself to start letting go of those perfectionist tendencies.

What You'll Learn From This Episode:

  • Where the mentality of “being perfect” came from
  • How to start changing your story around “being perfect”
  • Questions to ask yourself to increase your awareness
  • How procrastination fits in with perfectionism
  • T-Rex Thinking
  • How procrastination and perfectionism can keep you stalled in your business

Listen to the Full Episode:

10. Procrastinating & Perfectionism with Victoria Albina, NP, MPH

The Ease of Hustle with Lauren Cash

Full Episode Transcript:

You are listening to The Effective Entrepreneur Podcast, Episode 10: Procrastinating and Perfectionism.

Hey, I'm super excited for you to listen to today's show with my friend Victoria. We had an amazing chat/interview about what it's like to overcome perfectionism and procrastination, why it might be showing up for you, what it might look like, and then ways to start noticing it so that you can become aware in order to change these patterns if you decide to. So, without any further ado, let's dive right on in.

Lauren: Hey, so Victoria, I'm so glad to have you on the first podcast episode with a guest. How about you introduce yourself to the people that are listening, and tell them what you do in the world?

Victoria: Thank you, Lauren. I am so honored and delighted to be your first guest. I feel like a super rock star.

Lauren: You are.

Victoria: Because you are an amazing rock star, thank you. We are mirrors for each other. So my name is Victoria Albina, I use she/her pronouns, I live on occupied Lenape territory in the Hudson Valley of New York, and I am the host of the podcast Feminist Wellness. I am a holistic nurse practitioner, certified life coach, and my passion is helping humans socialized as women to overcome codependency, perfectionism, and people pleasing.

Lauren: Awesome.

Victoria: Yeah.

Lauren: So you're the perfect person for us to introduce-

Victoria: Why, thank you.

Lauren: The topic of perfectionism and procrastinating, especially for entrepreneurs, of those who have been socialized to be female-identifying on this podcast. So, I'm super excited to talk more about that. How do we know each other, so the people know?

Victoria: So we met in a galaxy far, far away. No, through the Life Coach School.

Lauren: Yeah.

Victoria: The amazing Life Coach School. I was doing that thing we do when we don't really understand how to Monday Hour One, where I was setting these ridiculous perfectionist fantasy level goals for my life. And the ever amazing, Jill Angie, who's a great running coach through the LCS world was like, “Hire Lauren now. You're ridiculous. You have to hire Lauren.” And she just was like, “It's the only answer.” So I did, and we worked together for six months?

Lauren: Yeah.

Victoria: Was it six months?

Lauren: Six.

Victoria: Wow.

Lauren: Six months, yeah.

Victoria: It was incredible, you're amazing.

Lauren: Thanks everyone, now you can hear the plug from Victoria, planned on purpose.

Victoria: She so didn't tell me to plug, it's completely earnest.

Lauren: Awesome. I'm super stoked though to talk about this. So for you, what was coming up around, can you talk more about that? What was coming up for you around Monday Hour One? And for those who don't know what Monday Hour One is listening to this, that is a program that I co developed with Brooke Castillo and Tyson Bradley using some tools from the Life Coach School to teach how to do a weekly planning process using time blocking on a digital calendar. What was coming up for you around that before you hired me? You said perfectionistic fantasies, tell us more.

Victoria: Yeah. So it's something I have been working on for many years, and I feel like one of the reasons people need coaches is we get to a certain level with our own self-development and self-improvement, and we need that outside eye to help us see what we can't see. So I couldn't see how, yeah, that my perfectionist thought habits were leading me to put absolutely ridiculous things on my calendar. Like alright, I've got to, Monday, let's write four blogs, put them all on the website, put them all on Instagram, just bite off these huge, ridiculous chunks. And then, and you helped me so much with this, I was beating myself up on the other end for not completing tasks that should never have been on my calendar, that were actually completely ridiculous.

And when I say ridiculous, I say that in a truly self loving, kind, caring way, because the word ridiculous makes me laugh. And I think it's really important to be like, “Oh, that was so silly. Right? Like, that was silly of me.” And for me, that reframe, I didn't have the tools, and so I was doing the best I could with what I had at the time, and that was so silly. Helps me remember not to beat myself up, which is the number one favorite game of the procrastinating perfectionist, right?, is to make it all into this huge, wild, massive job to do, which is not humanly possible. To not calendar it, not make it into the bite sized block chunk bites that you recommend, and then to beat yourself up on the back end for not doing something that no mere mortal could actually do.

Lauren: Yeah, so why do you think some of us who tend to have what we label as “perfectionistic tendencies,” why do you think we do that? Why do we take on more than what's even humanly realistic?

Victoria: Well, my lens is I come from really taking an evolutionary biology kind of framework, and looking at the concept of the inner child, and polyvagal sensory mode, applying these frameworks of understanding why humans do what they do, and what modern psychology teaches us. And I think what I saw in myself and what I see in my clients is the conflation of “being perfect” and safety. Right? And so we decided usually at some point in childhood with our child minds that if we were beyond reproach, then we would be safe. And sometimes it was physically, literally true, right? Like there was danger in the household and if we were the quiet one, or if we had been put into the scapegoat place, which my work is with folks with codependent thinking, that often also happens.

If we're put in that scapegoat place and we can just perfect our way out of it, then maybe they'll stop being so mean to me, or blaming me, or judging me, or criticizing me. So when that was the norm, when that was the milieu in which we grew up, these habits in adulthood make absolute perfect sense, because your mind, body, and spirit believe they'll keep you from dying. So, of course you do these things. You should until you learn a different model, a different protocol, a different way of doing it. Your thoughts, “I must be perfect or else I'll die.” Make complete and utter sense, they're so logical. I love those for you, and I love the journey out of those thoughts for you, because they don't serve you, right?

Lauren: Yeah. I love so much how you explain that. In my group program, I also have this, “How to Overcome Perfectionism” mini work book, and I talk about that. How it makes so much sense that we develop it. And I think part of the layering on the judgment, and the beating ourselves up, is that we're thinking that we shouldn't be that way, and that we're going to use the very same strategies in order to stop doing that. We think the beating ourselves up and being hard and critical is what's going to help us stop being so “perfectionistic”. But it's really just perpetuating and using the same mentality that we're starting with, and I love how you described how it was really, as in psychology we call adaptive, in the beginning of your life and that's when your brain is forming, and you have all of these neural pathways that are developing and learning to fire together and all of that.

And so that self-compassion that we can bring as we're learning to recognize these tendencies that may not be serving us anymore is huge. And really, the biggest part of anything that I think you and I do in our work is that self-compassion piece. Of course, of course this is the way that we have learned to stay safe. So then the question becomes for me, and probably for the listeners, how do we know that we want to change that now in adulthood? So we're safe now, we're not small children anymore, how do we know that we want to change that? In that maybe we would like to if it was super adaptive before. What are your thoughts on that?

Victoria: So how do we know that something's now maladaptive?

Lauren: Yes, exactly.

Victoria: Right on. I think it's really in zooming out. So I talk about the three A's, awareness, acceptance, action. The US culture loves to jump to action, New Year's resolution, it doesn't work. Never has, never will, right? Because you're just chasing that A line, changing all those actions without changing your thoughts. So we start with awareness. So for me it starts with zooming out and really getting that big picture look at your life, and asking yourself very plainly, having taken a firm seat in self-acceptance, self-love, self-compassion, what's working and what's not?

And so for me, I'm this Leo, I'm a doer and I'm a go getter and I'm the generator, and that human design you told me I had to look up. So fun, by the way. And with all of my wild capacity to get things done, I was prioritizing urgency versus efficiency, and I was just living putting out fire after fire, and feeling really rushed, and really stressed, and really frustrated. Like I just wasn't getting things done. I had that sinking feeling in my gut at the end of every day, and every week, and every month, and every quarter. And what's interesting, because it's never about the circumstance, in speaking to entrepreneurs, I was making more and more money. And I was scaling, and my email list was growing, and my Instagram was growing, and it was growing, but I felt like a failure because I was still using that same old mentality, that mindset, that framework, to evaluate myself with that same old harshness that I thought would keep me safe in childhood.

Lauren: So, one thing I've found really fascinating working with folks around these topics of procrastinating and perfectionism, I'm not sure if you've found this to be true, so we'll check in and see. A lot of folks that work with me have not self-identified as one or the other, if any of them.

Victoria: Right.

Lauren: Or they identify as procrastinators, but they don't think they're perfectionists, perfectionistic because they're procrastinators. Or the opposite, the perfectionists are like, “Oh, I'm for sure not a procrastinator, because I'm a perfectionist.”

Victoria: Right.

Lauren: Or, “I didn't think I was either of these things, I just wasn't getting the results that I wanted in my life.”

Victoria: Right, right.

Lauren: Do you notice this as well with your folks?

Victoria: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. People don't realize, because most of us haven't been taught that procrastination is the habit of the perfectionist, right? They don't see that link, like you just pointed out. For me, I never thought and I talk about this in my podcast, Feminist Wellness, there's a couple episodes about perfectionism, but I talk about, because I had that negative self- image and was telling all those stories about how I wasn't getting things done, that like, “Of course I'm not a perfectionist. I'm not perfect. I'm a constant f up.” Right? Like, “I'm constantly not doing things right.” And so it was really-

Lauren: Which is perfectionism right there speaking.

Victoria: In a nutshell, right?

Lauren: Yeah.

Victoria: Right. It's, you can't see it until you see it, right? And it just needed to click for me that that was the root cause of what was ailing me, right? Was this perfectionist habit of thinking things had to be just so, and that if people thought something negative about me then that was a problem, right? Because this all ties into people pleasing too, because perfectionists are trying to read people's minds and people please an imaginary audience, right? It's not actually your Instagram or your email list, you're trying to please the whole world. Yeah but, I didn't see it until I saw it I guess.

Lauren: Yeah. What would you say for those listening, what could they start to check in with for themselves if they want to start to identify this? Just so that they can consider maybe getting the help that they want. Maybe even they're not even aware of this being a thing that they could potentially have freedom from if they desired that.

Victoria: Yeah. So I would start with checking in around your energy when you're doing different tasks. So check in with your body. I bring a lot of, Somatics, into my work, which means a focus on the body, and the energy in our bodies when we're just living and doing life. And so checking in with your body to see, are you tense when you're making that spreadsheet? Are you putting this inordinate pressure on yourself? Check in with the places that folks tend to hold fight-or-flight energy, sympathetic activation, adrenaline energy. So tightness in the jaw, in the neck, in the hips, is your body telling you that you're doing a task with an energy that doesn't serve you. Right? That keeps you in that feeling stuck, feeling behind the eight ball, feeling never good enough, feeling unworthy energy, and that's a hint that it may be something to check in on. I'd also invite folks to check in around their buffering. I have an episode around buffering, I'm sure you will soon enough.

Lauren: What is that, for those who don't know yet? Yay.

Victoria: Yes. Buffering is the thought habit that you can keep an emotion at bay by effectively turning your back on it, right? So pushing it away, I'm not going to look at that, shoving it in the closet and closing the door. And so buffering is a beautiful, amazing psychological tool that keeps us from exploding and dying when the energy is too much, and there's a flip side to everything, every yin has its yang, right? And so buffering can be watching TV, to excess drinking, eating, exercising, calling friends, reading a great novel. Literally the thing you are doing doesn't matter, again, it's the energy of the thing. Are you doing it to not look? Or are you doing it because you want to watch Netflix because Netflix is great. Right? Like TV's great. But it's that unconsciousness, right, it's stepping out of being your watcher into unconscious.

So I would invite folks to ask themselves, am I buffering? Am I cleaning the house in the middle of a work day because I don't want to look at my work? Right? Because doing that feels more comfortable than doing that Instagram post I've been postponing because, “Oh, well, I don't know why.” Right? And so that was another hint for me, and it's a hint I see in my clients, and so we really dive deep in these things in my six month program, because we have the time and the space to really look at how these things show up. But when we are procrastinating the same task or the same kind of task, it's often because we've written that story in our mind that it is dangerous, that it is not safe to get vulnerable in this way, it is not safe to be seen this way, people will judge me, what will people think? Those sorts of narratives.

So checking in. The other thing that comes to me is intention and motivation, right? So really looking at the why. Why you're doing things and why you're not doing things. And it's a really challenging question to ask yourself at first, right? It's very vulnerable making. It is uncomfortable as get out, until it's not. Until I feel weird now if I haven't asked myself, “Well, what's your reason why? Why are you doing that?” Right? And I talk to myself, like such a Leo, out loud. Also an ESL kid, like I like to hear things out loud, so I'm like, “Hey Vic, why are you not doing that? I see that you have moved this to your margin space for the third week in a row, why are not doing that babe?” And I just talk to myself as that most loving parent, because the answer's in there.

Lauren: Yeah. I love the way that you asked that question. A lot of my clients have a hard time with looking at what they have not done. You said that in the beginning. And if I'm to look at it, then immediately, of course, I'm going to beat myself up about it, so I just don't want to look at it at all. But what if you're instead met with, of course you weren't meant to do it in that moment, and you could just ask yourself the like, “What's up babe?” question-

Victoria: Right. Yeah.

Lauren: about this makes perfect sense somewhere in that moment. I was just thinking and feeling something that then I didn't do it, and it makes sense, I love that.

Victoria: Right. Yeah.

Lauren: So tell us then how you understand procrastination fitting more with perfectionism. Where did that come up for you, and how do you see it functioning together?

Victoria: Yeah. So when the story in our minds, that self-loving, amazing, one's adaptive story is, “I have to do everything or I'm in trouble,” and I'll share my thought theory that really works for me. So, so many of my clients grew up with what I love to call “T-Rex mentality,” or “T-Rex thinking.” So let's picture a T-Rex. They cannot see you if you're not moving, right? So my clients, and I too, learned to be very quiet and very still, do everything perfect and then the T-Rex can't see you. You're less likely to get in trouble, to be called out, to be criticized, to be judged, to be actually unsafe if the T-Rex can't see you, because then it can't eat your face. Right?

Lauren: Love it. Such a good picture.

Victoria: That's a good life goal, right?

Lauren: Yes.

Victoria: And so if that framework in your mind is, “Let's keep the T-Rex in my mind from eating my face by always getting the A+, gold star, all the likes, all the shares, all the saves, all the everything,” entrepreneurs are really gunning for, then my goodness. That is quite a hurdle to jump over when you're going to email your list two to three times a week, and post to Instagram three or four times, right? It turns the most normal little cotidian things into this massive indictment of your worth and value as a human mammal and your survivability. Right? And so a client in my six month program was talking about how petrified she is to write this series of emails that her boss wants her to write, because in her words, her boss is so difficult. We can break down what are difficult people later. But her boss is so difficult, so critical, she knows that no matter how she does it, the boss isn't going to like it.

And so she's so fearful of that moment that she couldn't predict, per her narrative, the boss will be displeased. And that feels so dangerous, so T-Rexy, that she would rather kick that can down the road, right? It's fascinating, because what she wasn't realizing is that she's prolonging her own suffering, because it was due Friday but then she put it off to Monday, but then put it off to Wednesday, and then to the next Friday. Just on and on and rinse and repeat and rinse and repeat, because she doesn't want to get to that moment of turning it and getting that criticism from her boss. So now she's getting the criticism because it's late, from the boss and from herself. Right? But we do that, we postpone the things whose completion we fear. Right? Because someone else may think something negative about us, but really we fear ourselves beating us up, as we've been talking about. Because if it's not done, it can't be criticized, right?

Lauren: And yet we also still, at the same time, beat ourselves up so much for the things that we haven't gotten done and the things we're moving on the calendar. And so if the beating up is going to happen either way in that stage, why not, just do and then experience the self-flagellation then.

Victoria: Yep. Totally, right.

Lauren: And then we can work through not doing that part anymore.

Victoria: Right. Right, right.

Lauren: And that'll be so much easier.

Victoria: Yeah. Another thing that comes up a ton for my clients is, this is the framing, because I hear the same framing over and over. “No matter what I say, this person is going to respond in this way,” right? “She's going to be offended, he's going to get defensive, they're going to take it personally, they're going to get mad,” right? On and on and on. To which I say, “If that's going to happen anyway, then speak your truth, set your boundaries, state your need.” You know what I mean?

Lauren: Yeah. If it is going to happen anyway like we just were talking about with yourself, you're going to beat yourself up either way, why not just get it done and get it over with? And then we don't have to do that long term, of course not.

Victoria: Right, right.

Lauren: But you might as well then just do it. Yeah, so I think you've really highlighted for sure the perceived people pleasing, like what is going to be received by those who get or done main project.

Victoria: Right.

Lauren: So podcasting is a common one I see for a lot of clients. They have a hard time getting that done and out, because there's alot about we're talking to the listeners, and people are downloading it and hearing it. Things like webinars, things like things for bosses, all of these types of things. Are there any others that you see a lot, so that the folks listening can be like, “Oh yeah, you're right. That thing, maybe that is people pleasing, procrastinating in my perfectionistic tendency.”

Victoria: Well, I think a lot of self-help and self-improvement projects, right? Again, when there's either an external T-Rex, an internal T-Rex, or false evidence in our minds, we fear doing the thing. So we kick it down the road, right? Kick the can down the road. And so when I refer to the false evidence, that's the story, and it's total BS. I've never done it before, so I can't do it now, right?

Lauren: Yeah.

Victoria: And so new listeners, Lauren and I are Health At Every Size humans, so I'm going to say the words weight loss within the framework of we are never encouraging that, but we are honoring that some people want that journey. Did I speak for you correctly?

Lauren: Yeah. That's good.

Victoria: I realized midway, I'm like, this is not very feminist, I'm just talking for her. But you and I have talked a thousand times about this, so.

Lauren: I know. So for the folks listening, Victoria's not talking for me.

Victoria: But I was, sorry.

Lauren: Yeah.

Victoria: But right? When people are like, “I want to lose weight, but I've never been able to make it work before.” Or “I want to start exercising, I want to start meditating, I want to start journaling or doing thought work, but I've never been able to stick to a routine. I've never been able to accomplish these things.” That's that false evidence in your head, right? That may be true in the past, but you've never been to France until you go to France, right? So giving yourself the grace to say, “Cool, so I've never done it before,” like you and I didn't have podcasts until we had podcasts, right? Giving yourself the grace to say, “Every day I'm a new version of me. And I can start with beginner's mind, and I can come to this day fresh and can set my intentions and my goals for today, instead of rolling around in that procrastinating perfectionist framework.” There is this Spaniard saying that I love so much, “You can never kiss the same girl twice.” Isn't that phenomenal?

Lauren: It's so sweet.

Victoria: It's so sweet, it's so beautiful, right? Every single moment, we are changed and changing, and how about giving yourself a break? Right? That the last time you tried to meditate, you were a wildly different human.

Lauren: Yeah. That's so good, and it's the way of anything that we haven't done it before when we do it. There's no way to do something in a new moment the way that it was before. I always like to say that in client sessions, too. You've never had a, whatever date it is today before with the very specific conditions that are present ever before, because it wasn't this day on this planet with whatever is happening exactly where it's happening, even if it seems really familiar.

Victoria: Right, right.

Lauren: And I like to use that when I'm going to do something new, according to my mind. Because really, everything that we're doing is something new, and a new moment, and a new moment, and a new moment. Because we only ever have this moment right now. We can only perceive past and future in our minds, it's not really a thing other than that.

Victoria: Yeah. Right.

Lauren: Just to get a little crazy on some folks. But yeah, so I love that. What would you say has been the biggest change for you to drop some of the perfectionism and the procrastinating that may have been a byproduct of that in your business? How have you been able to become more effective? Do you have any specific, maybe even actionable type things? Even if it's doing the, “What's going on there, babe?” Things that we can offer the listeners.

Victoria: I think for me in my journey, it had to start with self-acceptance and self-love. And radical self-acceptance, and radical self-love, by which I mean there is nothing that I can do that will make me not love me, that will make me be unkind to me. I decline the offer self, “Thank you for giving me that offer, but I'm no longer interested,” because I've come to see how much it holds me back and keeps me stuck, and so I don't do it. Right? And so that is that moment of like, “All right mittens, you're being a little harsh now.” I taught kindergarten for a minute, and so I think of how I would talk to those little tenderonies, right? Of like, “Hey babe, no bullying on the schoolyard, okay?” Right? And so I get to gently re-parent myself and show up for my inner children that way, to say like, “Baby, baby baby.” Right? I coo at myself a lot these days.

Lauren: I love it. So fun.

Victoria: It's my most effective, efficient business strategy, is really talking to the eight year old within, and the fourteen year old within, right?, who are doing all their foot stomping. Because they're the ones that keep me from being effective and efficient, because they're on the lookout for T-Rex, and they're suspicious, and they're doubtful, and they don't want to be vulnerable, right? So cultivating that loving relationship with your inner village, with yourself, and that self-acceptance and self-love. And so using the framing of a minimum baseline, but I'm going to nerd it pretty hard. Are your safety goggles in place, Lauren Cash?

Lauren: My goggles are ready to go.

Victoria: Okay, great. Because I'm going to nerd so hard.

Lauren: Let's do it.

Victoria: Let's do it.

Lauren: We love to nerd together.

Victoria: I love to nerd, it's like our favorite thing. Oh god, the articles we send each other. But okay, let's talk polyvagal.

Lauren: Let's.

Victoria: And I'll make it quick, but the autonomic nervous system has three parts. The sympathetic nervous system, which is fight or flight or freak out, which is you think the T-Rex is coming, a lion is coming, your body floods with adrenaline and eventually cortisol after that, norepinephrine, and you're ready to punch someone in the nose or run for the hills. The second part is parasympathetic, that's ventral vagal, which is the safe and social. That's the front body, so you're seeing the world, listening to the world, you feel safe. You feel okay. Things are nice. And then there's dorsal vagal, which is the back body, and I remember that because your back is against the door of the cave trying to keep all the predators out. We go to that place, the immobilization shut down place, depression place, playing possum, deer in the headlights, the “I just can't. I'm so stuck. I don't know what to do. How do I get started?”

We go to there when safe and social has failed us, and we've gone to fight or flight and it's not available in our physiology, in our brain, in our psyche, in our spirit. I bring this up because when we try to make change, we often make these wholesale, “I have to change everything about my life,” kind of negotiations, right? Where it's like, “I have to make so much change all at once,” and in so doing, we're creating that perfectionist thought trap really, that sends us either into that sympathetic activation of like, “Okay, I need to change my weight. I need to change my exercise. I need to change my nutrition. I need to do thought work, I need to make a perfect blog, I need to have ten thousand followers on Instagram, the perfect podcast. And it needs to happen by Wednesday. Oh, but it is Wednesday. It needs to happen immediately or sooner, preferably sooner than immediately.” Right?

Lauren: Yes.

Victoria: And then when we've learned that we're humans and we can't do those things, because we have jacked our nervous system for so long, and this is also often part of how we grew up, our nervous system gets set in these ways ages 0-3, right? So we may have grown up learning to shoot into sympathetic, or needing to do that for survival. But then it's so easy when that system is exhausted to collapse into dorsal. Again into that, “I'm so stuck, I don't know where to start, how do I do this.” And I see that in my group all the time, right? People rev the engine way too hard and then are surprised when the car catches fire. That's what happens.

Lauren: Yeah. I have clients like this exactly too, so I'm thinking about how amazing this is for the listeners, that you're explaining it this way.

Victoria: Yay. And so what I support people to do in the work I do is to recognize how they can bring themselves back into that ventral vagal, that safe and social. Not because sympathetic is bad, you can't get up out of bed and put on pants and eat food without it. And not because dorsal is bad, because when you take a little tender couch nap in the mid-afternoon, which I know you scheduled, that's thanks to dorsal, right? Shavasana is thanks to dorsal, it's a beautiful thing. And when we are in ventral vagal and able to pull ourselves to there, that's when we have our most cognitive capacity and our most digestive and thyroid capacity, right? Our physiology, our metabolism, our cognition, everything works optimally. Optimal is different from best, we are not judging, right? But it works optimally in that ventral vagal energy.

So again, that's safe and social, that's love, that's tenderness, that's connection, that's care, that's why I literally coo at my 41 year old self a thousand times a day. That's why I call me sweet little baby. Right? Because it brings me, and this would be different for everyone, but you asked about me, Lauren. So this brings me back into connection with self, so I can do one small thing, pause. Celebrating the effing f out of it, and then do the next right thing. Pause, celebrate, next right thing. Because perfectionist thinking keeps us from pausing and celebrating, right? Because we have created this story in which, “We're always so behind the eight ball, there's no time to celebrate.” Plus, think about it, balloons and streamers, way to get a T-Rex's attention, right?

Lauren: Don't mention the confetti gun or anything like that, either.

Victoria: Oh my god, you guys are going to be swarmed with T-Rexes before you knew what was happening. Danger, danger, danger Lauren Cash. No thank you. Yeah, so we celebrate, and in celebrating we show ourselves that we can trust ourselves, because we decided to do a tiny tiny tiny thing, and my goodness, we did it. And then we celebrate ourselves. And what we're doing, as you referred to this, neurons that fire together wire together means, picture a field, and you've got a wheelbarrow. And you're going from the house to the barn, from the house to the barn, from the house to the barn with the wheelbarrow. You create a rut in the mud, and the wheel just goes to the rut, it's physics, it's how it works. And our brains aren't very different. If you keep having the same thought, you'll have the same physiologic response, the same molecules of emotion will be released by your brain into your body, and from your body throughout you. And you will have that same feeling, take the same action, create the same result.

Lauren: And those of us who are business owners think that none of this applies to business, but it absolutely does in all of the ways.

Victoria: All of the ways.

Lauren: All of the ways, because we are going to try to get ourselves all worked up to do all the things, essentially that's what you said. I just am going to do all the things all at once yesterday.

Victoria: All the things, right. Yesterday.

Lauren: And then that's impossible for us to be able to keep up with, and then for a lot of folks listening, you probably have noticed that then you do none of the things. And then you think, why even try anymore?

Victoria: Right.

Lauren: Because I didn't get anywhere or do anything.

Victoria: Right.

Lauren: But doing the small thing, your mind just thinks that that is the small thing, and staying there in the optimal state, then that ends up compounding and will create the business that you want to create, and will be sustainable. Because who wants a business that isn't going to be sustainable? It doesn't make sense.

Victoria: Right.

Lauren: Are you just doing a business for a year?

Victoria: Right, right.

Lauren: And just going really hard for a year? Or are you wanting to make an impact helping folks that you care about for a longer period of time.

Victoria: Right, right. And it's also there's that false cognition that it's a lot of activity that leads to burnout. But it's really your energy and your mindset, right? And so when I was done practicing medicine as a nurse practitioner, and wanted the shift to full-time coaching, it wasn't because I was ordering so many labs, right? It wasn't the doing, it was the energy of it.

Lauren: Yeah.

Victoria: The energy was no longer congruent with my joy, it wasn't, if you'll excuse me, but aligned with my joy. Right? I needed to do something else.

Lauren: I think that's such a common misconception with burnout, that it's about what we're doing and the doing-ness of it, but it's never about the actual doing-ness of it. It's just what thought feeling combo, as I call it, are we having that's driving that. Are we driving it with insufficient fuel or amazing sufficient fuel that's going to last a long time? I love that.

Victoria: Right. Yeah.

Lauren: Thanks so much for being on the podcast.

Victoria: Oh my goodness.

Lauren: It's been so useful. I'm so excited for everyone to be able to hear this and be introduced to thinking about perfectionism and procrastination. I think it's best introduced in this way in a fun combo with you.

Victoria: Agreed.

Lauren: Before we say goodbye to everyone listening, will you tell us about where they can find you in the world? Heard rumors of a master class?

Victoria: Indeed. Yeah, so I have a six month master class, it's called, The Feminist Wellness Guide to Overcoming Codependency, and our focus is learning these mind management and somatic connection tools with a whole ton of nerditry, to shift our thinking around codependency, perfectionism, people pleasing, procrastination. Because it's usually that one core thought leading to all the rest, around worthiness and value and lovability. So we dive in deep because we're together for six months, and folks can learn about that on, and I am currently taking applications for the January 2021 group, so join us.

Lauren: Yay, so exciting.

Victoria: Yay. I know, I love it. If you want to get a taste of what I do beyond this call, two great ways to do it are by downloading my free suite of meditations, including some nervous system exercises. You can get those right at There's just a little place right on the home page where you can put your name and your email in, and those pop right over to your email box. They're 100 percent for free, because I love you and your healing matters. And the other place is my podcast, so it's also free, weekly, it's called, Feminist Wellness. Please go check that out, subscribe, and if you're enjoying it. And finally you can follow me over on the Instagram @victoriaalbinawellness. I give good gram.

Lauren: You do, you do give good gram.

Victoria: Thank you. You give good gram, too. Your story's so cute.

Lauren: Aww, thanks, I'll have to take a cute little selfie, without the microphones. And then we will post it to the gram and tagging each other.

Victoria: That would be cute, I love it. We're so nerdy.

Lauren: I know.

Victoria: It's the best.

Lauren: Well, thanks so much for being with us Victoria. I hope everyone who's interested in doing more of that work with you applies for your master class.

Victoria: Thank you.

Lauren: And until then, I hope you all have fun digesting and googling different words from our conversation, and I'll talk to you next week. Bye.

Victoria: Bye.

Hey, thanks again for listening to The Effective Entrepreneur Podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode. I'll look forward to talking to you again next week. Until then, if you want to start becoming effective, I found that the inbox is a great microcosm for that, and I've created a guide for you in order to get to and maintain near inbox zero. It is called Select All. You can download it for free at That's v-i-v-e-r-e.c-o/email. You also can find all of the show notes with all of the links and the transcripts for every episode on the website. So just head to for everything that you need, including your guide.

Thanks, see you next week.

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